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printer-friendly version www.NewDemocracyWorld.org Response to David Pakman's Claim that Reza Aslan is a Liar This is a response to David Pakman's video attack on Reza Aslan at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RmAo6XVAA .
It seems to me that Pakman's point is what I will call Proposition A:
Pakman also seems to be saying that the only way to challenge Proposition A is by lying, and Aslan is a liar. Reza Aslan's point is that Proposition A is false. Aslan directs people's attention to aspects of reality that are hard to explain on the basis of Proposition A. One can quibble with some statements Aslan makes, but--for the reasons I spell out in detail below--I don't think these quibbles constitute a basis for saying "Aslan is a liar." I think Aslan does in fact point out truthfully that there are aspects of reality that conflict with Proposition A. Now for the details:
David Pakman says:
Pakman assertion #1. Reza Aslan doesn't have a Ph.D. in Religion.
Here's what his Ph.D. thesis adviser, Mark Juergensmayer, says:
By the way, whoever wrote the book Zealot is a historian, because that book is the kind of book historians write, and it is the writing of such books that MAKES a person a historian. Aslan wrote that book. One can argue whether or not he is a good historian, but the same goes for the earliest historian, Herodotus, who, by the way, did not have a "degree in history" but nobody says he was not a historian. If there was an academic conference and Aslan gave a talk at it and somebody criticized him for "misrepresenting his credentials" I think that person would be considered an idiot by the people at the conference.
Pakman assertion #2. Aslan lies about female genital mutilation PunditFact examined Aslan's claim, and looked at the very same map that Pakman displays, and concludes:
Pakman infers (wrongly!) from the fact that most nations having FGM are Muslim, the conclusion that being a Muslim nation is the thing that causes a nation to have FGM, or in other words that Aslan is wrong to deny that FGM is a "Muslim thing." But this is not logical. It's like saying that the fact that most of the powerful people in the United States are white shows that being white causes a person to be powerful in the United States. Pakman infers (wrongly!) from the fact that some Muslims in nations with FGM say that Islam requires FGM, the conclusion that Islam requires FGM. But this is not logical. It's like saying that the fact that the Christian leaders of South Africa during apartheid insisted that opposition to apartheid meant opposition to Christianity (i.e., that Christianity required apartheid) shows that Christianity requires apartheid. It's also like saying that the fact that most jurors say that a jury cannot legally do jury nullification shows that juries cannot legally do jury nullification. Pakman says "FGM is almost exclusively a Muslim problem." Why "almost" if it is Islam and only Islam that causes it? Furthermore, racial apartheid was exclusively a Christian problem, but did Christianity cause racial apartheid? Pakman is clearly not a logician! Consider Eritrea:
Consider Niger:
The fact that some Muslim nations, such as Indonesia, do have a very high prevalence of FGM certainly shows that being a Muslim nation does not prevent FGM, but--contrary to the "logic" of people like Pakman (and Bill Maher)--it does not show that Islam is a cause (never mind the only cause) of FGM. The fact that in Eritrea 89% of Catholics and 85% of Protestants practice FGM, whereas in Niger (94% Muslim) 80% (more according to some surveys) of the people do NOT practice FGM shows clearly that it is not at all true that, as Proposition A asserts, the key to eliminating FGM is to persuade people to reject Islam as their religion. This was Aslan's point--which, granted, he did not make perfectly and Pakman can claim to have won a debater's point or two if that makes him happy. But Aslan's point is true; it is what the actual data logically imply. It is true that Aslan wrongly omitted to say that some non-African majority-Muslim nations (such as Indonesia) also have high FGM prevalence. Some say this omission was deliberate deceit on Aslan's part. Who knows? It may have been simply that Aslan was relying on the map taken from the July 2013 UNICEF Report on FGM that is also displayed here, which shows only African nations.
Pakman assertion #3. Aslan lies in saying that Indonesia and Malaysia and Bangladesh are free and open societies for women Aslan's response to the CNN reporter's claim that Muslim societies are not "free and open" for women was to point out that not all Muslim societies are the same with respect to whatever is actually meant by the extremely vague phrase "free and open"--a phrase that the CNN reporter did not even try to define precisely enough to make a sophisticated response even possible. There are a zillion ways that one can define "free and open" and a zillion criteria that one could choose with which to answer the question for a given society, "Is it 'free and open' for women?" Person A, for example, can choose to look at whether men but not women are forced to register for the draft, and whether--all relevant things about the mother and father being equal--women are given child custody in divorce and not men, as two good criteria for judging whether a society is biased in favor of women against men. By those criteria, the U.S. is a society that is much less "free and open" for men than for women. And by these criteria, one could say that a person B, who claims that there is gender equality in the United States and hence that it is a society that is "free and open" for men, is a liar. But if person B is merely using criteria different from person A for evaluating if a society is "free and open"then person B may have a perfectly reasonable basis for his/her claim, and it would be silly to frame the disagreement as merely a reflection of the "fact" that "person A is telling the truth and person B is simply lying." Aslan distinguished Iran and Saudi Arabia as not "free and open" for women, versus Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh as being "free and open" for women. I don't know what criteria Aslan had in mind and neither does Pakman. What if Aslan's criterion was the participation of women in the national government? How do Saudi Arabia, Iran, Malaysia, Bangladesh and Indonesia (an the United States, as a non-Muslim reference point) compare on this measure? Saudi Arabia:
Iran:
Bangladesh:
Malaysia:
Indonesia:
United States:
Pakman assertion #4: Aslan lies in saying that the Koran forbids slavery Pakman doesn't quote Aslan on this, so it's not clear what Aslan actually said. Both the Bible's New Testament and the Koran have passages that endorse slavery. For example, in the Bible's New Testament, Ephesians 6-5 uses the word "bondservant" to mean "slave" (according to Biblia.com here) and says,
According to this source, the Koran contains the following:
Very few (not zero, but very few!) Muslims or Christians today defend slavery, no matter what words appear in their scripture. Pakman assertion #5: Aslan lies in denying that Hamas uses civilians as a military shield The television clip that Pakman shows to make this claim actually shows Aslan asserting that Israel killed many civilians in Gaza. Another guest then says this killing was justified, on the grounds (apparently, the audio is garbled) that Hamas used civilians as a shield, and Aslan replied, "that is nonsense." The real debate here, obviously, is over whether Israel's massacre of civilians in Gaza was justified or not, and Alsn is 100% correct in saying that any justification of this massacre is "nonsense." For some discussion of this one can start by reading "Israeli Leaders and Hamas Need Each Other" and other articles here. Pakman assertion #6: Aslan's brand of oversensitivity regarding Islam makes it "nearly impossible to criticize certain strands of bad ideas in the world without being labeled an Islamaphobe." If this were true, then Aslan would not have said that Saudi Arabia and Iran were not "free and open" societies for women. But he DID say this. Pakman implies that Aslan defends ISIS. But Pakman includes no clips in his video of Aslan doing any such thing. Surely if Aslan had anywhere defended ISIS Pakman would have shown this in his video, so Pakman must not have been able to find any actual evidence that Aslan ever defended ISIS. Pakman insists, quite illogically, that Aslan is an "oversensitive" and "politically correct" liar because he (Aslan) does not agree that there are some very bad things in the world that can only be ended by persuading people to stop saying, "I am a Muslim; my religion is Islam." Pakman and people like Sam Harris use this kind of "reasoning" to defend Israel's racist and violent ethnic cleansing of non-Jews (mostly Muslims and also some Christians) from the 78% of Palestine called Israel. Because most Palestinians are Muslims, Pakman's narrative is that they are therefore bad people who deserve to be ethnically cleansed, and if they fight back they deserve to be massacred because, well, they're Muslims and therefore they have bad ideas and do bad things. Pakman lectures: "All true bigotry and racism must be condemned." But he doesn't say a word in condemnation of Zionism, which is the thoroughly racist movement to make most of Palestine a Jewish state. The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel stresses that the sovereign authority in Israel is the Jewish people, not the people who live there: "This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign state." It repeatedly uses phrases to emphasize this point: "Jewish people...in its own country," "Jewish people to rebuild its national home," "Jewish state," "right of the Jewish people to establish their state," "Jewish people in the upbuilding of its state," "sovereign Jewish people." Israel uses violent ethnic cleansing to drive out and keep out as many non-Jews as possible, so it can purport to be a "democracy" and a Jewish state at the same time. Thus 70% of the people in Gaza are refugees from what is called Israel, and Israel violently prevents them from returning, from exercising their Right of Return, which they have according to the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 13(2), which says, "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." Section 7A(1) of the Basic Law of Israel explicitly prevents Israeli citizens – Arab or Jewish – from using the "democratic" system of Israeli elections to challenge the inferior status of Arabs under the law; it restricts who can run for political office with this language: "A candidates' list shall not participate in elections to the Knesset if among its goals or deeds, either expressly or impliedly, are one of the following: (1) The negation of the existence of the State of Israel as the State of the Jewish People. …" In a 1989 Israeli Supreme Court ruling (reported in the 1991 Israel Law Review, Vol. 25, p. 219, published by the Faculty of Law at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem) Justice S. Levine, speaking for the majority, ruled that this law meant that a political party could not run candidates if it intended to achieve the cancellation of one of the fundamental tenets of the State – namely "the existence of a Jewish majority, the granting of preference to Jews in matters of immigration, and the existence of close and reciprocal relations between the State and the Jews of the Diaspora." Until Pakman condemns the utterly racist project of Israeli Zionism, his utterances about how "All true bigotry and racism must be condemned" cannot be taken seriously, and his accusations that people such as Reza Aslan are liars if they defend Muslims from such injustice must be seen for what they are--an effort to help injustice gain some ill-deserved popular support. Reza Aslan does not, as Pakman claims, "label everyone who criticizes bad ideas in the Koran or bad ideas held by some Muslims" as an "Islamaphobe"; he lables as an "Islamaphobe" people such as Pakman who wrongly insist that some very bad things in the world can only be ended by persuading people to stop saying, "I am a Muslim; my religion is Islam."
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